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28th Aug 16 9:47 PM
stripey
Posts 1,153
Firstly, well done, Denny!
It's always a good day to beat your best score on a course.

Now, handicaps.

Yes, they are based on the SSS of the course you are playing.
If you are just putting in cards to get a handicap, then it's as simple as that.

In competitions, the SSS of the day, known as the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) can change, between SSS - 1 and SSS + 3, depending on the scores achieved by players that day. There's a complex formula for this which takes into account the handicap categories of the players. Essentially, if the course s playing harder, then an allowance is made for handicap purposes.
 
28th Aug 16 10:06 PM
Denny
Posts 365
Quote:
Originally posted by stripey
Firstly, well done, Denny!
It's always a good day to beat your best score on a course.

Now, handicaps.

Yes, they are based on the SSS of the course you are playing.
If you are just putting in cards to get a handicap, then it's as simple as that.

In competitions, the SSS of the day, known as the CSS (Competition Scratch Score) can change, between SSS - 1 and SSS + 3, depending on the scores achieved by players that day. There's a complex formula for this which takes into account the handicap categories of the players. Essentially, if the course s playing harder, then an allowance is made for handicap purposes.


Thanks, stripey. So on an easier course you'll need more than 36 points to improve your handicap?
 
28th Aug 16 10:41 PM
stripey
Posts 1,153
Quote:
Originally posted by Denny
Thanks, stripey. So on an easier course you'll need more than 36 points to improve your handicap?


Exactly so, Denny. For example, my course is par 66, SSS 65 (white tees) and SSS 64 yellow tees. So in a competition, off the white tees, assuming the CSS doesn't drop by one, you would need at least 38 points to shave anything off your handicap.

By contrast, in Hoopie's Club Championship, a few weeks, ago, the par on his course is 72, but the CSS one day was 75, so 34 points would reduce your handicap.
 
28th Aug 16 11:06 PM
ozzymac
Posts 929
I'm looking forward to actually getting a handicap
 
28th Aug 16 11:09 PM
Denny
Posts 365
Quote:
Originally posted by stripey
Exactly so, Denny. For example, my course is par 66, SSS 65 (white tees) and SSS 64 yellow tees. So in a competition, off the white tees, assuming the CSS doesn't drop by one, you would need at least 38 points to shave anything off your handicap.

By contrast, in Hoopie's Club Championship, a few weeks, ago, the par on his course is 72, but the CSS one day was 75, so 34 points would reduce your handicap.


Thanks, stripey - makes sense. I'll have to try even harder next time then! 39 points weren't enough to get my handicap down!
 
28th Aug 16 11:12 PM
ozzymac
Posts 929
Quote:
Originally posted by Denny
Thanks, stripey - makes sense. I'll have to try even harder next time then! 39 points weren't enough to get my handicap down!


What's it currently at Denny?
 
29th Aug 16 3:59 AM
Hoopie
Posts 184
A common error with people is to assume their handicap represents their average golf. This really bugs me especially on society days where people expect to make 36 points or they have done badly. As a result I try to avoid society golf, too many cowboys.

Your handicap is more a representation of your better golf. As a rule of thumb you should on average play 25% worse than your handicap.

I.e.

20 h/c = 25 over on average
10 h/c = 12.5 over
4 h/c = 5 over

Hence you expect the lower h/c to win on average in match play. Also why as a cat 1 golfer I only get a 1 shot buffer, whilst cat 2 gets 2 shots, cat 3 gets 3 shots, etc. Also you get cut in chucks, but only drift up 0.1 per bad round.

The U.K. Is moving over to the slope rating system, I get the idea behind it, but not fully sure about the workings yet. The idea is to smooth out handicaps so higher handicap get more of a chance on harder courses, but not so much help on easier courses.

Personally I am not a huge fan of handicaps. If I play a scratch golfer and take 1 more shot than him, it feels like a shallow victory to me, I would rather beat him gross or lose. Handicaps can discourage people to practice and become better. Too many people protect their handicap for big competitions, I can not get my head round that mind set personally.
 
29th Aug 16 8:02 AM
Denny
Posts 365
Quote:
Originally posted by ozzymac
What's it currently at Denny?


Still 28 but in the brink of getting that down.
 
29th Aug 16 9:11 PM
Denny
Posts 365
Quote:
Originally posted by Hoopie
A common error with people is to assume their handicap represents their average golf. This really bugs me especially on society days where people expect to make 36 points or they have done badly. As a result I try to avoid society golf, too many cowboys.

Your handicap is more a representation of your better golf. As a rule of thumb you should on average play 25% worse than your handicap.

I.e.

20 h/c = 25 over on average
10 h/c = 12.5 over
4 h/c = 5 over

Hence you expect the lower h/c to win on average in match play. Also why as a cat 1 golfer I only get a 1 shot buffer, whilst cat 2 gets 2 shots, cat 3 gets 3 shots, etc. Also you get cut in chucks, but only drift up 0.1 per bad round.


You'll have to bear with me Hoopie, but not sure I get this. So just say you need 37 points on a course to improve your handicap. However, if you're scoring below 36 on average then surely your handicap will go up?
 
29th Aug 16 9:25 PM
ozzymac
Posts 929
Quote:
Originally posted by Hoopie
Too many people protect their handicap for big competitions, I can not get my head round that mind set personally.


A bit like avoiding promotion
 
29th Aug 16 9:39 PM
stripey
Posts 1,153
Quote:
Originally posted by Denny
You'll have to bear with me Hoopie, but not sure I get this. So just say you need 37 points on a course to improve your handicap. However, if you're scoring below 36 on average then surely your handicap will go up?


There's a buffer zone for each handicap category, for one thing,so you can be just a litle above and your handicap won't move. But the other thing about that is that the maximum it can go up is 0.1, and there's no limit to the maximum it can come down.

Let's say it's you, then, Denny, in Category 4, and you play ten competitions, all of them Stableford. To keep things simple, we'll assume that your SSS is the same as par for your course, and that the CSS is always the same as the SSS.

Off 28, you have a 4-shot buffer zone, so you can score as low as 32 points and your handicap won't go up. If you beat your handicap, it comes down 0.4 for every shot by which you do so.

So, you have these Stableford scores:

32, 34, 37, 30, 25, 27, 33, 38, 21, 24

Average Stableford points score there is 30.1, so on average you are playing to 34.

However, here's what happens to your handicap

Start: 28.0
32 points: 28.0
34 points: 28.0
37 points: 27.6
30 points: 27.7
25 points: 27.8
27 points: 27.9
33 points: 27.9
38 points; 27.1 New playing handicap 27
21 points*: 27.2
24 points*: 27.3

*Off your new handicap of 27, these would probably be 20 points and 23 points, but the effect on the handicap is the same.
 
29th Aug 16 10:34 PM
Denny
Posts 365
Ah thanks, Stripey. I think I see how it works now.
 
29th Aug 16 10:35 PM
Denny
Posts 365
Is the 4 point buffer always on the lower side?
 
29th Aug 16 10:39 PM
ozzymac
Posts 929
Quote:
Originally posted by Denny
Is the 4 point buffer always on the lower side?


Looks like both sides to me Denny.

Either that or i'm just dumb
 
29th Aug 16 11:07 PM
stripey
Posts 1,153
Quote:
Originally posted by ozzymac
Looks like both sides to me Denny.

Either that or i'm just dumb


Or I explained it badly.

These figures apply to Category 4 golfers, i.e. those with a handicap of 21 to 28.

The buffer zone is to allow you to play to a little worse than your handicap (up to four shots/points worse) without getting any increase, and the maximum increase you can get is 0.1, however bad a score you put in.

There isn't a buffer zone if you play better than your handicap, and your handicap goes down by 0.4 for every shot/point by which you beat it.

Has that obscured it totally?
 
30th Aug 16 7:04 AM
Denny
Posts 365
Quote:
Originally posted by stripey
Or I explained it badly.

These figures apply to Category 4 golfers, i.e. those with a handicap of 21 to 28.

The buffer zone is to allow you to play to a little worse than your handicap (up to four shots/points worse) without getting any increase, and the maximum increase you can get is 0.1, however bad a score you put in.

There isn't a buffer zone if you play better than your handicap, and your handicap goes down by 0.4 for every shot/point by which you beat it.

Has that obscured it totally?


No that's confirmed my thoughts, Stripey. Thanks. When I said lower side I was thinking stableford, not score.
 
30th Aug 16 9:15 PM
stripey
Posts 1,153
Odd game this evening. Fantastic Shropshire weather - gentle wind, and warm sunshine.

Front nine;
3 3 3 5 4 4 4 4 6 (six pars; 13 putts)
Back nine:
7 5 3 5 5 4 4 4 4 (four pars; 17 putts)

Some awful shots, and some great recoveries.
9th and 10th were dreadful, especially the 10th, where I hit a nice drive to about 100 yards away from the green, before a fluff, a shank and three putts.
 
30th Aug 16 9:39 PM
Hoopie
Posts 184
Quote:
Originally posted by stripey
Odd game this evening. Fantastic Shropshire weather - gentle wind, and warm sunshine.

Front nine;
3 3 3 5 4 4 4 4 6 (six pars; 13 putts)
Back nine:
7 5 3 5 5 4 4 4 4 (four pars; 17 putts)

Some awful shots, and some great recoveries.
9th and 10th were dreadful, especially the 10th, where I hit a nice drive to about 100 yards away from the green, before a fluff, a shank and three putts.


Nice round, 9 and 10 killed you, often the case where a couple of holes back to back destroy a round.

6 from 100 yards really hurts. That is where the pros are so good. I hate hitting 4 from 100 yards, pros rarely do. The amount of times they get down in 2 from inside 100 is what makes them stand out
 
30th Aug 16 9:50 PM
stripey
Posts 1,153
Quote:
Originally posted by Hoopie
Nice round, 9 and 10 killed you, often the case where a couple of holes back to back destroy a round.

6 from 100 yards really hurts. That is where the pros are so good. I hate hitting 4 from 100 yards, pros rarely do. The amount of times they get down in 2 from inside 100 is what makes them stand out


Well I took 6 more from 100 yards at the 10th!! From +2 to +7 in two holes turned it from a potentially very good score to something a bit more ordinary, but I enjoyed a good few up and downs. Wish I could eliminate those shanks, though - they are murderous.

I'm gradually getting further round my course in beating my age. I've been stuck on the 13th for a few years, despite the fact that it gets a shot easier each year. Should have bagged the 14th tonight.r
 
30th Aug 16 11:20 PM
simondo68
Posts 23
Frustrated, playing off 18 and have been hugely consistent to that for a few weeks, score every round 88 - 91, about 15 rounds on the bounce. Driving well and long, 3 putted once in last 6 rounds, just irons! Killing me, struggling to hit a green hole after hole from 120 to 150, always miss to one side by just a little. Grew up on a course and played off 18 when I was 9, need to sort these shots out to make the breakthrough.
 
 
 

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