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Fatigue
I'm guessing this may be an area that's been changed with the new version, but after 10 days of training and playing matches, it just ain't rising fast enough.

That may sound a little odd, but it seems far too easy to manage fatigue at the moment.

Yeah, it's the same for everyone, but that's the whole point of raising it as an issue. If it's not difficult to manage then there's little point in having it.

Managing fatigue well should allow some managers to train their players faster than others or to use squad rotation if players are too tired ... and it doesn't appear to be achieving that.

Yes good point, it does seem like that. I've had players on high intensity weights for days, along with matches and they aren't fatigued.

Another stat seems to be influenced by training on high intensity though..

Agreed

Yup - not too bothered about it yet though.

Agreed. It is to easy at the moment to manage.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I've been giving this a lot of thought. Rather than simply raise it as an issue, I thought it may be helpful to propose a solution.

It seems that fatigue comes from two main sources, playing matches and training, and there is also an amount of daily recovery. I've been crunching some numbers, and these may not be perfect, but I think they're a good approximation.

Fatigue cost of training varies with assignment and intensity.

It appears that playing a full match for 90 minutes costs 4 fatigue. This seems to vary a little with older players.

There seems to be a daily recovery of 10 fatigue. (Masked by any training, but 10 for Rest).



Maybe this is best analysed on a weekly basis
There is 70 fatigue available to each player (7 days x 10).

Worst case
If a first team player plays 5 league and 2 cup matches then that costs 28 fatigue. In the event that he is also selected for 2 reserve games this will be 36 fatigue for 9 matches per week, possible but rather extreme.

First team players
Most first team players would play less than this. With first team games only, squad rotation, suspensions, substitutions and cup exits then most of the first team would probably average around 5-6 matches a week. That has a fatigue cost of 20-24.

Reserves
2 reserve matches per week has a fatigue cost of 8. A little more if they are squad players who sometimes play in the first team. With very large squads, they may not even get a regular reserve game.

Fatigue available for training
So I'd estimate the weekly fatigue for most players from just playing matches will be in the range 8-24. Deducting this from the 70 available leaves between 46 and 62 available for training assignments. That's far too much.



How and why should it be changed?
Managing fatigue for each player affects how many matches can be played, their training assignments and the intensity.

If it's easy then players can play every match available, choose any training assignment and use high intensity.

If it's hard they can't play every match, or train as hard as possible. Managers will need to use squad rotation and/or put players on Rest and/or train them more slowly.

The question is where to put the slider? Very Easy, Easy, Straightforward, Moderate, Difficult, Hard, Very Hard.



Proposal
The simplest solution seems to be to decrease the amount of daily recovery from 10 to some other value.

Changing it from 10 to 4, for example, would allow a player to play 1 match per day but not do any training without fatigue rising. It would allow the reserves to train, but after the first few seasons first teamers would not need much training. Hard but workable, and reserves would train slowly.



Daily recovery options

4 - Very Hard
5 - Hard
6 - Fairly Hard
7 - Moderate
8 - Fairly Easy
9 - Easy
10 - Very Easy


Personally, I would like to change it to 5 or maybe 6 as I think it would make this area of the game challenging and fun. It would be more realistic in forcing squad rotation for clubs involved in cup matches. There would be an advantage to having larger squads. Players would train more slowly and this would give an advantage to managers who train their players efficiently.


No doubt, others will have a different view. Thoughts?

Obviously with the change to a 56 day season and more games being played, Ron had to adjust fatigue to cater for this.

Perhaps he went a little far?

As the admin didn't want any advantage during the testing we are learning the same things as everyone else.

It has been brought to Ron's attention...

Fatigue management is fairly easy at the moment but this is a season without The Divisional Cups. Could teams involved in those Cups find it too difficult to manage fatigue next season if it was made harder to deal with now?

Isn't that the challenge of making sure you use a full squad rather than a set 11 players for each game.

Personally I would like to see it much harder, with 2 reserve games each week, at the moment I can play my best 11 in each game and still keep my full squad fit.

Fair enough. I was more saying that I don't know what the impact of the extra divisional cup matches would be and whether that would make the fatigue and recovery right as it is.

I understand.

I suppose the current position needs to be the default and those managers who do get into the extra cup competition need to plan a little harder to keep fatigue under better control

There's so much "free" fatigue at the moment that a few more cup games won't make much difference.

See the numbers I posted earlier.

As Gav says, if necessary the clubs should make use of the full squad.

Ive got a player on 35 fatigue, and other players with highish fatigue, so some teams still in the cups are suffering.

With so many games so close, plus training, plus low stat. players, I think the fatigue is currently perfect. Maybe a tweak in a couple of seasons, but not right now.

Like I say, I think its perfect atm.

Some very helpful stuff there, Muffin.

You're working them to the bone, then, Scotty?

Nah not really tbh, and the training Im doing shouldnt raise their fatigue that much.

Like I say the Cup games [Im still in our Lge Cup ] are having an impact, so imho, the fatigue is set perfectly, for now.

Maybe change it in season 3? I think atm, with players attributes so low, having to rest a player for so many days over a season will become a long and tedious task, atm....

wouldnt want to be a player in your team you slave driver

heheee

Increase the risks of knocks to higher fatigue... don't perhaps need to change the faitgue levels just yet. Having more knocks means the Players are not injured, but forces the Manager to decide whether to train them. He may even be convinced he may be able to play them, should the variation of knocks be administered well.

Currently, we have too few knocks. Maybe we could add a list of the typical knocks players receive and introduce more, at various levels of knocks..

Example Knocks

Broken Nose - loss of 50% Match Fitness
Dead Leg - loss of 25%
Cut / Bandage - Loss of 5%

any more?

Players continue playing now with broken noses and fractured cheekbones 0% decrease. We could impose a 50 credit charge for the carbon face mask for each time the player continues to play in matches. Although if he suffers another head injury during the match then maybe 50% loss.

Also cut/bandage, that would be no loss, it would come under the Terry Butcher no problem just carry on ideology of, even when half my skull is hanging off, its just a scratch!!!

Ermmm ... but we could have... getting bitten by an opposition player, loss of morale 15%.