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League Table arrows seem to be wrong


Hawkins Hotspurs are currently showing as gaining a position, but I don't think that they have. They have just gain 1 point from a draw. The 2 teams within 2 points of them have both gained 3 points, SSSI they haven't overtaken them.

I suspect, as Hawkins are currently 1 place below on the half-time table, this is where the green arrow is coming from.

To add to this my club Real Donkeys has a red arrow, while Berniefsc have a green arrow, but both clubs are in the same position as yesterday.

This is correct PB

After the 12pm game your draw took you above Bernie.

Then after the 3pm game Bernie's draw took them above you, so on a live league table throughout the day you technically went up a place and then down a place at different times.

Ah, that kind of makes sense.

Maybe it is by design, and not a bug, but I do find it a little confusing.

At 13:45 after the first matches of the day the arrows make sense. The arrows show movement within the table for that day.

At 16:45 after the second matches the arrows show the movement only from the second group of matches.

At 19:45 after the final matches the arrows show the movement only for these final matches.

Then 15 minutes later at 20:00 the arrows revert to the movement within the table for the day.

Is it just me that finds the arrows confusing between 16:45 and 19:59?

Interesting. Its kinda right as is, but I had not considered it in depth.
I need to give it some thought.
Ron

With matches being at different times, it's kind of difficult to say what the correct and consistent approach should be.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is the least confusing method would be that following the main update the arrows should reflect the previous day's change.

Once the first results are in at 13:50 then the table should just reflect the current day's games, as if the table was refreshed at 12:00. So the update arrows effectively run from 12:00 to 12:00.

How about changing all of the team's arrows after each match update rather than only the teams that have just played?

Perfect in my opinion

I'm unclear exactly what you mean by this, you're probably suggesting the same as I am, but I'm not entirely sure.

I think most would agree the arrows should show all the teams after each match.

The real issue is the Base or "From" point.

Since game times change then a rolling 24 hours would be no good, as some teams would have had 2 matches and some teams none. To include just 1 match per team then the "from" point needs to change once per day, at some time between the update and the start of the next day's matches. I believe this is best done at 12:00.

My suggestion isn't much different to yours to be honest, only yours will only be up to date for the 1st and last game of the day rather than all 3.

I think you've misunderstood. Yes every team's arrow should be there after each game but I mean they should all be updated after every game rather than only the teams that have played.

i.e. you start the day in 5th but your match isn't until 18:00. After the 12:00 game you are overtaken and drop down 1 place so show a red arrow, after the 15:00 update nothing changes so you show a grey arrow and after the 3rd and final update you win and move back up so show a green arrow.. Hope I explained it a little better this time.

BMG,

Yeah, I think I did misunderstand you.

If I'm correct, you wish to rebase after every group of a few matches. So with your proposal the base point would change 3 times in a 24 hour period.

At 13:50, after the first set, the arrows reflect the difference between 12:00 and 13:50.
At 16:50, after the second set, the arrows would reflect just the difference between 15:00 and 16:50.
At 19:50, after the third set, the arrows would reflect the difference between 18:00 and 19:50.

What do you propose they then show at the main update? Just the recent difference of the last 3 matches, or all 24 hours?

Have I got that correct?


Personally, I think most people would want to see the change since "yesterday", not just the incremental changes during the last few hours.

I was thinking this after I originally posted as you could start in 5th at the beginning of the day, finish in 5th yet still show a green arrow.

If everybody would rather only see the changes compared to their previous day's position I'd suggest only updating the league table information after the final match of the day.

That's probably the best way of doing it, as trying to get the arrows right is not straightforward. However, it is nice to be able to see the table in an updated form after the early matches (especially if you've just won one!) so perhaps a pop-up for "Latest positions" could be attached to the live feed, and even updated as goals went in.

In your example that I've quoted, after the first match you've rebased the arrows as of 12:00, which is the same as I've suggested.

After the 15:00 match, you rebase again as of 15:00 so you would show a "no change", because they've stayed in 6th from earlier the same day. Since they were 5th overnight, haven't played a match and are now in 6th I think that's quite confusing, so I would still show the red (down 1) arrow. ie. The base point remains as of 12:00.

I was literally going to suggest the same thing..

If you go on your League Table currently at the very top it says 'Summary Table' & 'Full Table'.

How about underneath that having a select box which says:

Update:
o Per Day o Per Match

With the default setting as 'Per Day' (which will show my second suggestion), but with the option of also selecting 'Per Match', which would then show my first suggestion.

At least we've proved one thing.... It's complicated.

It won't be easy for Ron to please everyone and produce a method that's not confusing.

Good point..

How about in my first suggestion instead of having 1 arrow, have 3 arrows - 1 to show your position after each game?

That goes together with the suggestion above obviously..

In the side bar on the left it already shows the position you had on the last update. You can always compare to that one during the day.

But for a comprehensive use of arrows, I'd suggest to reset the arrows before the first match of the day (at the 8 am update or at noon) and then let it develop for the rest of the day.

At least with us discussing it and coming up with an adequate solution he doesn't have to spend time thinking about it and can instead spend that time coding.

I believe this is the same as my proposal.

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Apologies to Ron for the long discussion.

I hope you find it of some use.