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Really though, let's not debate this here. I'm available for a discussion if you wish to continue, but please try to focus on tips or expand/offer a different angle on building a club here.

I thought about writing something similar to this a while back. Didn't for 2 reasons - hard work and...well there's always 1 or 2 out there.

anyway it wouldn't have been anywhere near as comprehensive or well laid out as this.

an IAG blueprint

Well done Kevin
Have to admit to reading it myself, even though I'm an "ld timer."

To those who are critical..
this is Kevin's opinion - not fact. However, he has proved pretty damn useful at this game so likely he knows more than most
One reason he is good at this is because he is damn good at finances. We all wish to get the most credits when selling and pay the least when buying. I don't see Kevin is any different to the rest of us - he's just better at doing it.
This must have taken a lot of work and time - but Kevin is not a charity and I suggest is unlikely to give his players away for free (though if you are, I'm at the front of the queue )

Wow kev, this is a great post. I also request that this thread should be stickied(if not yet) or you Kevin should copy and past that post in the blog.Thanks.

Why do you think this is personal? It's not from my perspective.

The high asking price is exactly the problem here. I listed a player that was very good for my second team a while back, but I allowed the market to determine the price without putting my stamp on it. I listed him way under his true value, got 20 bidders & he sold for 18m. Do you see what I did there? I got managers involved! Some put in a "cheeky" bid, others put in serious bids. You know why I mention the word "cheeky" as you pm'd me using the reference about how far out you were in the bidding! I believe that was a friendly conversation if you still have the pm's it will confirm this.

The difference here, is that you are using an ordinary player and deliberately over pricing him which smacks of total disrespect for the game and other managers. You know full well, that at best and in the current market, that this player is worth barely half what you are asking and the 30% sell on is a joke.

In times gone by, the MODs would have been all over this and watching you very carefully to make sure there is no collusion with a manager using price fixing to keep other managers out of the deals you have setup. Remember that?



I have nothing against your advice!!! My contribution is that you are only using one angle to the market. List at extortionate prices and wait to see if one bidder with a pot of cash falls for it. You are essentially promoting transfer market inflation to maintain your status, which in one way, makes your advice to ordinary or new players worthless.



I fully understand that you believe there are mugs out there who will pay your fee, but as I said last night - you seem to be keen to help your target audience and that is indeed noble of you, but what exactly will they do with your player once they have purchased him with the 20 or 30 rated staff they have? Perhaps you should have included that in the initial post?



You're rambling now Kevin, so I don't feel I need to directly answer this.

Indirectly, your player would ordinarily sell in the range of 5-7m which clearly is the right area for a player of this type and yet you state you are feeling out the market? That is novice talk. Let's remember this is an average player with the lowest fixed attributes in the 50s, whereas the price you are asking is normally attributed to a player with fixed attributes in the 80s.

Like I said, this is nothing personal, but why shouldn't I cast a critical eye over your motives? You even mention the extortionate prices several times in your opening post - probably because it is more important to you, in order to keep levels high and your rating elevated.

Congratulations.

The mods examine every transfer BB

BB, we have had this kind of conversation before. It is why I requested we do not have it here. What next? I reply to you, you break down my post to 20 pieces to bring up your points in a structured way and this goes on and on.

When I started the thread I was hoping people would pitch in with small tidbits of info, specific situations they have been through that may be of use for someone else. Or with questions about their own clubs. Most of all I was hoping some of those managers who rarely post would make their 3rd or 4th forum post to ask for help and hopefully we could draw them a bit more into the community.

How will this happen if the thread turns into a conversation of the kind "but you sell overpriced players and you are harming the game" and I'm explaining myself over 2-3 pages?

What part of "let's not talk about this here" was unclear?

I'll answer you one last time but if you want to continue on this topic, don't do it here - I'll ignore further replies in this very thread.

First of all, here is the groundbreaking truth:

Stop believing managers who are looking for high prices are cruel selfish vile creatures who are desperate to succeed at the others' expense. This is a competitive game. It is not the community's job to put pressure on people to list players on "fair" prices and it is not anybody's obligation to list players at low asking prices out of altruism. In a competitive game this task falls to the game mechanics and its inner balance. If you don't like how the system functions, challenge the system. You can't challenge other managers because they are doing their best to compete. Not because of their greed and not because of what is right and wrong. Because it will never work this way.

You say my advice to ordinary or new players is worthless because I am trying to make the most of my assets. Which is precisely what I am giving as an advice. Yet the people posting in the thread have pretty much said they are finding those thoughts useful.

You ask me what will my target audience do with my player with their low rated coaches. First I'm not using this thread to ask the managers to sign any of my players. But let's have a look at the player indeed, whom you call mediocre. This is a 70 youth rating player who is not yet maxed out. He is above 50 rating as of now and will get to the 60s. You don't see many teenage wingers of this rating going on the market. A quick look at your own team (a top 20 club) shows he will soon be better than any of your own mids. If you find this level mediocre, perhaps some others won't. Does that make him not expensive? No, he is. Does that make him worthless? I'm not so sure. Does a lower level of coaches matter? That's why I'm trying to sell developed players. You don't need to train them. But stop for a second and think, do you honestly believe a 80 potential teenage player trained to his top will sell for this kind of money? Don't answer this. You may agree or disagree. Everyone has their own thoughts on any of those.

As for my "motives", suggesting I will influence managers to maintain an ever growing inflation that serves me via a thread in the forums is outright hilarious.

Do you ever wonder why the best managers don't post in the forums? Why mackfishy didn't drop by with some advice of his own, or run his own thread? It is because of this "he's only doing what's best for himself, so he must have an agenda posting things like that here, so I'll hijack this thread and expose him" mentality.

Seriously, you look at someone spending all this time trying to give some insights in a structured way and the only urge you feel is to drop by and tell everyone his words are useless because you don't agree with his asking price on a player?!

Who in their right mind would continue to spend their time on debating this kind of feedback? What's the point in trying to help if you will instead invest half an hour of an hour or two hours of your day answering detailed posts about how you are actually not trying to help but manipulating people to buy your players?!

I won't be responding to this further, BB. If you really feel the way you describe, please don't follow up on this particular thread. We can talk elsewhere.

I still hope someone may pitch in with some tip of substance or a specific question that could help them turn a cornerstone with their club, but this now seems unlikely.

Try not to make a substantial loss in any given season. Its bound to cause future tax issues considering the available funds required to successfully crest the higher staff thresholds

How do you determine this though?
Some 'insight' may well serve as a detterent itself and stop dastardly dealings before they arise.

You mean listening to rumours and speculation? Or observing particular patterns over time?

The beauty of an open, transparent, blind transfer market is you have to make decisions based solely on need and affordability.

I've just signed a defender for 19.7m. I could have got him 5m cheaper, but how could you know. I needed him. I can afford it.

Kevin recently outbid me (only just) by paying over 20m for a young striker. He knew there'd be competition so bid accordingly.

My 2nd team acquired a young 80 rated striker a couple of days ago for under 10m. Not what I needed. Just a 'cheeky' speculative, and very conservative bid.

It's swings and roundabouts. Ozzymac paid me 21m plus for a 29 year old striker listed for 17.5m.

Nothing fundamentally wrong with an open market. Though I accept it's slightly skewed by the paucity of managers.

The fact is IAG is a game of logic. Kevin excels simply because he understands this.

As for the mods, they don't miss a trick from what I've seen over the last decade or so

Youth searches: Avoid players who look good overall but have one poor attribute. Look for a (more or less) even spread. I must have done 50+ searches (per scout) for a keeper. Got one today rated 40+. Mentality 22. No good.

Those scout searches can sometimes serve you with a hell of a dilemma. It really depends on the current state of your academy - how many youths do you already have in it, what is their age spread, etc. Since you can't "fire" a youth whenever you choose, you may end up locking all your slots or be forced to try and promote a potential gem earlier than you'd like to - or you could be losing out some monster potential find.

There are some exceptions worth mentioning. A high rated 17 year old could be a decent risk if you can justify spending the money - at least he will free up the slot in less than a season.

The academy could also be a place to drop some of your income prior to tax if all else fails, if you are looking to limit your profit. A quick search for 17 year olds near the end of the season could at the very least provide you with options if you happen to be in that situation and can't be sure if you will be able to sign a player. Certainly less expensive than starting a 8 million stand you don't need at that point to spare 2 million tax.

Agreed, but it takes patience. Over time, with enough scouts you can afford to be picky. I know I've filled my academy with some rubbish only to come across diamonds I can't promote. I think (regardless of staff level) if you send out enough searches (repeatedly), then you'll eventually find decent, even-attributed, youths.

The tax point is definitely pertinent, especially with a sparse academy. Stadium expansions are also good for tax avoidance. I'd say that unless my ticket price was in danger of reaching 50 though, I'd only ever expand to avoid the 20% tax threshold.

The point being that improving the squad is always the first call of duty in IAG.

Well to be honest how many find themselves in your stadium/TP boots

We have a list of every transfer and every one is examined using techniques that i won't share on the forum.

Suffice to say it's effective.

A bit more on Squad and how to manage it:

There are a few things you need to be aware of while looking at your squad.
- Squad size;
- Squad age;
- First team players;
- Developing players;
- Squad fillers.

Squad size - You have a minimum and maximum allowed squad size.

The minimum allowed squad size as shown in the board tab says 17, but in reality you can safely drop to 16 - although that is not recommended. Should you drop to 15 players, you will have a week to increase your roster or you will get sacked. Getting below the board minimum will also obstruct you from placing players on the transfer market, giving you less flexibility with managing your assets.

The maximum allowed squad size increases as you hit each next club rating tier.

While you are growing your club, you will find it easier to attack a higher club rating tier with a lower squad size. It is simple math - assembling a squad of 17 highly rated players is easier than getting 21 of them.

Maintaining a low squad size has a number of advantages and disadvantages. First of all, you will be paying less in wages if you have fewer players. You will also be under less pressure to recycle them as they grow older. On the other hand this will leave you exposed to injuries and suspensions piling up and ultimately devastating your season. Many experienced managers prefer to utilize low squad size, particularly while they are growing their club. Just be wary of the risks that go with this.

If you have a wider squad do not worry. This is an opportunity to reevaluate and take action, therefore you have a variety of options. Do you really need to have 24-25 players? Could you part ways with those you don't need - even if you can't get top dollar for them? How would that affect your club? Maybe if you let several of those go, you will accumulate fresh money in the bank and boost your average player rating while decreasing your daily wages expense? In some cases even terminating player contracts can be a healthy step for your club.

Squad age - The average age of your squad.

Naturally you will want this to be as low as possible, but players get old quickly so you will always have a few lads close to or beyond 30.

A balanced squad and the natural cycle of players growing old points to a healthy medium of two players you will need to replace every season to stay ahead of the curve. Of course you can't always sign the players you want. Sometimes it is a matter of opportunity, sometimes it's a matter of finances, sometimes it's just pure luck. But if you can muster two fresh additions every season, you should be fine.

Try to plan out your squad so that you are aware what players you need urgently, what players you need soon and what positions can wait. This way you can prioritize your targets. If we take the squad size of 17 as a guideline, you will probably be looking at something like 2 goalkeepers, 6 defenders, 6 midfielders and 3 strikers (you can shuffle these a little depending on the formation you prefer). When you look at the age and quality of each position within your roster, you will notice where you are short in quality and where you are pressed by age.

Keep in mind age is not an universal factor. Goalkeepers usually play longer and may continue their career until the late 30s, some may even retire at 40 years old. Then every individual player may retire at a different age, whether 32 or 36. Try to be aware how much life you have left in each of your players once they turn 28.

A good indicator of that is the length of the contract they would accept during negotiations. It works like this: each player has a baseline and you can offer 2 seasons longer than that baseline. If a player wants a 1 season deal, you can offer up to 3 seasons and he will accept. If you offer 4, he won't negotiate. If they want a 2 season deal, you can offer up to 4, and so on. But if the player wants say 3 seasons and turns down a 5 season offer, accepting only 4 seasons - it is an indicator he will retire in about 4 seasons. This length will decrease with every next birthday of the player. Therefore it is crucial that you know when each of your players birthday is.

Once you are armed with this knowledge, you will be fully aware of the shape of your squad. You can now prioritize the positions you want to strengthen in and the specific players you would like to sell - and when. You can start strategizing beyond the immediate future. If you have a 28 year old midfielder who will retire at 32 and a 30 year old defender who will sign a 5 season contract, you can prioritize getting the midfielder out of your team first, while his sale value is higher. You can also consider signing a young midfield replacement before a defender, even if you won't be selling the midfielder immediately. You may opt to run the midfielder out until he gets closer to retirement, buying time to train the replacement up - but at least you will be aware how long you have and how much his value will decrease if you hold onto him for 1, 2, 3 seasons.

The positions you don't want to compromise with are goalkeeper and striker. Try to make sure you are never out of a quality goalie or striker. Build up from that. It may be worth signing a striker before replacing one of your aging midfielders just to have the time to train him up, even at the expense of decreasing your overall midfield roster temporarily. It may be worth signing an older but fully trained striker/goalkeeper as a temporary solution if you can't afford a younger player, your coaches can't train him to the level you want or you simply don't have the time to build him up. Remember, you only need 1 goalie and 1 striker to field say 80 preview score in GK and Attack while doing that in defense and midfield requires numerous players.

Once again, don't put a limitation in quality. The better players you aim for, the quicker you will grow. If you have a young 50 rated defender, it doesn't necessarily mean you should keep him until he is late 20s or early 30s before you consider replacing him. Perhaps you could get a good enough fee for him to get a better one? Young players - especially those who are fully trained - will command a higher fee. Overhauling your squad 2 players per season helps keep ahead of the curve, but doing more than 2 may mean you can get further ahead of the curve and grow quicker. The weaker your current squad is, the more room for improvement you have!

First team players

These are the players you will be fielding to achieve results on the pitch. Usually your squad will be a work in progress and regardless of its size, not all of the players will be equally good. You will have players you are nurturing who need a couple of seasons before they are fully ready, and you will have fringe players filling up the numbers. Your first goal is to have a competitive goalie and striker, and then a competitive defense and midfield based on your preferred formation. If you can at least fill the bench with equally good players in each position, your first team roster should be fine - so this should be your long term target.

Developing players

Those are the ones you signed to train up over time to replace your first teamers/expand your first team roster, and youths you promoted for sale that you prefer to train first in order to maximize their sale value. Ideally you will want to have no more than 2 of these players as more will drag your average player rating (and club rating) down. In reality you will usually have more. Try to have a good idea of how many you can swallow and how long it will take before they grow sufficiently in rating or you sell them. Sometimes it may be better to cash in on youth assets before they are fully trained, especially if you are angling at the next club rating tier. The important thing with these is you will want to play them every now and then - whether in regular reserve fixtures or in competitive matches against weaker opponents. You want their match fitness as close to 100 as possible, at all times.

Squad fillers

The dead wood of your squad. Players who won't improve and are well under your overall squad level. Maybe you inherited them, maybe you signed one or two to solve a squad size issue temporarily, or maybe you just happen to have a bunch of them for whatever reason.

Unless you absolutely must have them, get rid. Especially if you have a large squad size. Sell them cheap, even cancel their contracts if they are truly terrible. You need those slots for developing players instead of deadwood that won't improve, sucks resources out of your bank balance and drags your club rating down. Those guys do little but drag your overall club quality down and suffocate your potential growth.

Just posting to keep this thread from disappearing

A few words about a setup that allowed my 2nd club to hit the 6501+ club rating threshold to give some basic idea to those looking at this tier.

Squad
At the time of reaching 6501+ club rating the squad consists of the following players:
- 90s FA - 4 players - one fully trained, two others close to the max the staff could train them but a few points off, and the fourth was way below his ability and just has his rating in the 50s, effectively dragging APR down instead of boosting it.
- 80s FA - 6 players - 3 of them fully trained, 1 very close to the max of coaches ability, 1 about 10 points off, and 1 around 50 rating, effectively dragging APR down instead of boosting it.
- 70s FA - 1 player - fully trained.
- Youth Academy products - 1x60 rated, 1x50 rated, 3x high 40s, 1 newly promoted just over 10 rating.

The overall setup looks something like:
83, 79, 79, 78, 78, 77, 76, 71, 70, 60, 56, 55, 50, 47, 47, 46, 13

The APR of the squad was 66.

Stadium
The current stadium of the club is 15,400 seats. Any investment in it above 10,000 seats was done of sheer necessity to avoid big tax at the end of some seasons.

League Competition
This club has not been dominant in the local league - the presence of a powerhouse in the face of Stallions of Rock means it consistently fails to win the Nigerian Cup and is limited to 2nd place in the division table. This comes to say hitting a high club rating is possible even in serious competition.

Financials
Despite the relatively low level of quality compared to the 5 clubs above (all of which capable of fielding mostly, if not entirely fully trained 90s players), this club was fortunate enough to reach a couple finals of the Super Cup against all odds. While the windfall wasn't exactly massive, it did contribute to boosting the bank balance.

The bigger income was achieved through careful wage management and selling players before they grow too old and diminish too much in value. I didn't really plan with this club, there were no pre-arranged transfers so I can genuinely say it was casually but prudently ran. This isn't meant to gloat but merely to illustrate long term management can reap results if you are patient and don't fall to too many mistakes. In fact I even allowed one of the best strikers of the club to retire several seasons ago because a supposedly measured risk after suffering a season ending injury to the other striker backfired - that didn't destroy the club, even though it slowed it down in growth.

None of the purchased players were pre-agreed either. I was just bidding on the market for whatever caught my eye, and just like everyone else failed with 90% of the bids, if not more.

In order to grab the final points some of the older players were sold, leaving the squad at bare bones minimum of 17. The age structure isn't perfect, but 25 is not a disaster either.

I'd be happy to provide more info if something in particular interests you, guys.

(Essentially I just wanted to post something so that the thread wouldn't just die away, but didn't quite feel like bumping it with nothing substantial)

the sum of your player ratings is 1065 and there are 17 players, that is an APR of 62.65 and not 66 or have i missed something whilst juggling 1001 things whilst trying not to spill precious coffee? Your Super Cup runs will have helped you CR no end compared to others who didn't fare so well and the extra money from them that's for sure.

You have missed something