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ive just got a 33 38 35 16 year old fullback in my academy lets see how this goes.

Most world class players do not start off with the biggest clubs academies, yes a fair few do, but on the whole most players at the top clubs come from more humble backgrounds.

Take Liverpool, 1 x sunderland relegated, 1 x Newcastle relegated, 4 x Southampton, 1 x hull relegated, 2 x mid table german league sides, 2 x Saltzburg, the only player ( deemed world class) in Liverpools side came from their Academy is Trent, how many in Real Madrids came through the academy or Barcelona, Man utd etc etc in relation to how many players actually play for the top 5 side clubs in every league in the world. Most of these top world class players as I said came through small clubs.

The difference is between this game and the real game is that youths who sign pro contracts in this game come through with fixed attributes where they cannot improve once they accept a first team contract but in the real world, youths with the top clubs arrive there with potential to reach the top and its upto the clubs to tap into this potential but as I said in this game there are 2 barriers a manager faces

1. a promoted youth has a fixed attribute which cannot be improved on once he signs pro.

2. if his fixed attribute is good, then only a top team with the best coaches can fulfil his promise but a top team who promotes a 17yr old youth with fixed attributes that around 30 mark cannot do nothing about improving this player to become a worldie.

If the youth system in this game was tweaked so that players that do come through the youth system all have the potential like in the real world then it would be upto the manager in managing his progress and if the manager does not have good enough staff to improve the player beyond the level of his staff then the player could be shipped out to a bigger club or kept in the team for a good number of seasons until the manager gets better in the game and improves his quality of staff.

As I said, right now, about 70% or whatever it is of youth players end up on the scrapheap not in the game. Yes that's true also of the real game in many aspects but many of those dropped by clubs do still stay in the game at lower level clubs but at least they started with potential to make it whereas in this game their attributes are predetermined and we know in which way this is. More decent youths making the grade would only benefit the transfer system also in the long run

It's a game not real life so deal with it and stop trying to make comparisons between this and real life as they are 2 totally different things.

If you want a totally different youth academy and seemingly different game in general judging by all of the faults you are finding and want changing, play a different game as this is how it is until Ron has time and the inclination to do anything. There are already alterations in the pipeline it is all down to Ron, not Spencer.

As for your ridiculous real life comparison so as to get unicorn youths, crazy. How many times do you hear this is the new Messi, the new Ronaldo and yet they 99% of the time turn out to be absolute dross. Coaches will always say that xxx player was always destined for the top, that's hype and hindsight, literally every youth playing football in the park will have potential, it's realising it and it becoming reality in general.

As for saying it shouldn't make any difference about coaches and every team should be able to produce your Messi, Ronaldo or Mbappe type player, that type of player only became the player they are by moving from lower league clubs to better clubs as they had better coaches, that's real life as well. Are you telling me that a manager of say a division 2 side or national league is able to produce a Messi, no way.

Better clubs have better coaches and if there is an up and coming coach they get head hunted, fact. The same could be said for youths, how many times have you seen youths not sign first team contract because they want to move to another bigger club or country and the lower league club pretty much gets nothing for them through tribunal and then there are agents who are advising their clients not to sign as they will earn and win more at a bigger, better or different club, how do you fancy that if that is introduced aswell, someone like Kev or Peregrinos comes along and nicks your unicorn for next to nothing?

Another difference is in IAG is that we have an idea of potential through attributes, as with real life not all players fulfill that potential.

An interesting point of view Spencer, and it sounds like you agree that much of the youth system here is similar to the way it works in the real world even though this is just a game.

When I send my scout out to a different country to search for youths, I see it as very similar to when real clubs send their scouts out - they might look at the local boys clubs, or maybe the academies of the local teams or just go watch at the park for a while. When they come back, they tell me that they've found some players who they think *could* turn out to be good, but they haven't yet fulfilled their potential, so I sign them to my academy if I think they're worth it. Personally, I like how similar to real life that feels.

As to making tweaks to the game, there are many that various players would like, and there's not going to be any until Ron is ready to make the changes he feels are in the best interests of the game. We have IAG as is which is a very interesting game with lots to learn. This thread has shown me that the youth system is very valuable to many clubs.

Kind of but not really, yeah but, no but, definitely, maybe.

If you are taking my irritated reply in/out of context then perhaps yes there are some points that are similar to real life. However, it is nigh on impossible for teams even in our championship to get work permits for players let alone youths so maybe we wipe out being able to scout other countries for teams below the top leagues? Youths 99% of the time sign for the best sides so maybe the top sides get all of the talent first as well? Then youths that are progressing faster than others get poached for next to nothing so maybe introduce that too?

In reality yes some things are similar but also so totally different all at the same time. Politicians and accountants manipulate figures and ideas all of the time for the to show what they want them to and i fear this is one of those cases as pretty much all aspects of youth academy are inter linked and we can't just take the bit we like and ignore the rest.

And it is more often than not the better clubs coaches that develop the youths to the next levels in real life and the idea of lower league clubs being able to produce and train youths to the top level is frankly laughable as it simply doesn't happen and to 'demand' this happen on here because it does in real life is ludicrous as it doesn't happen in real life or this game and that is pretty much what is being discussed and compared, that was my point.

You'll notice the time stamps on our two posts are 1 minute apart - I was replying to Spencer and had not seen your post until mine was submitted. I'll edit mine to clarify.

So your saying Klopp is not responsible of making Andy Robertson into a world class full back or Trent into one, Henderson who was awful under previous manager and several other average players in the team who are now worldies.

What point are you trying to prove as it's contradictory in so many ways to your point and proves several of mine.

Robertson wasn't from liverpool's youth academy, he was arguably one of the best of a bad bunch at Hull and they got him from wherever.

TA had already developed through the age groups before Klopp arrived and for every TA there is clearly another 10 from at least 1 of his age groups who haven't progressed, the choice was either him or clynne wasn't it.

Henderson again was bought.

As you say, they have all progressed under Klopp and his coaches who are top class, they're not clearly lower league staff. Also, there is no way on earth they would've turned out as they are with poor coaches.

Also, let's not forget that all of these players are excellent within a team and that teams tactics and as you rightly said they were poor at previous teams as are a lot of players. There is indeed only TA who came from there youth academy the rest were bought thus dispelling one of your arguments of lower league teams being able to produce unicorns....oh, and you're hardly Klopp in rating and your staff are hardly liverpools rating.

Andy Robertson isn't half the player for Scotland that he is for Liverpool but he's still the same person, a lot of the time it's the players around you and tactics to suit every player or actually players to suit the tactics.

TA was developed under Rodgers, Klopp continued that development.

Messi whilst being very, very good, would he be the same in another team or different tactics, that for me is why Ronaldo is better as he's done it in 3 different countries and carries his country who in reality are poor. Ronaldo is actually another who only realised most of his potential under Ferguson and then continued at Real. It's well published United went to watch and buy Ricardo Quaresma as he was the one apparently who had all the ability and the one with greatest ability, the rest is history.

Hooray, and good luck with him, wally! I think my scouts are getting fed up with my instructions, looking at today's offering. I'm sending them out yet again, however, in the hope that they can turn up one more potential gem.

Henderson again was bought.

As you say, they have all progressed under Klopp and his coaches who are top class, they're not clearly lower league staff. Also, there is no way on earth they would've turned out as they are with poor coaches.



And here Notsospecialone is my point, in this game, a youth cannot progress once he has got into the first team better than he ended as a youth academy player, not with you as manager or Kevin or any other top managers. The messi's and Ta etc etc have potential and become world class players through first team experience but within this game a player who may have fixed stats of 40-50-60 in the Ya could and mostly do, cannot expand on their youth potential which is normally nothing like they promised as a youth. No contradiction there.

I currently have 5 17 year olds.

a 72 and 68 are the pick, 2 in the late 40s and one that's has hardly ever developed for some reason. He be the one that accepts

Really hope I get the good 2, but think that is being ambitious.

Breixo Novas ( 68 ) rated youth, declines promotion!

That would have been my best youth promotion but it turns out he'd rather flip burgers.

He had to go, though, as I needed his spot for Verguts (44: 47,44,41) a both-footed 13-year old Centerback. Hopefully he'll accept when it's his turn to promote

Eurgh I know how you feel on this hopefully your new recruit will train to even better than 68 and accept!

Hard luck, Piper - at least you've some more waiting in the wings.

I have to say, reading this thread really got me thinking about the Youth Academy and it's great to read that it clearly works for some of you

As a result I've now got a few youths with some fairly balanced attributes...

12 year old defender 30 - 29 - 28 is my best so far, even he's not that good but has been steadily improving for the last week or two so we'll see...fingers crossed!

I must admit that my interest in youths has been rekindled recently, and although my scouts aren't very highly rated, they come back in four days with one or two youths each. Six outings so far, and I've signed up two (as listed above) with good balance - my second account is similarly off for staff, and has been similarly fortunate in youth signings.

I like the sound of your 12-year-old, FM - how long have you had him, and did he start off at 5?

I agree Stripey, out of every 3 scouting searches I tend to get 1-2 worth signing up. I've got four scouts I send out, all of the same criteria and see what they bring back.

It looks like he's been in the academy for 16 days and has improved twice, he started off mid to low teens if I remember correctly. I really should be tracking this in a spreadsheet somewhere...

I've just started tracking mine, i.e. since the start of last season. In the two clubs the 12-year-olds that started out on a 4/5/6 5 rating haven't moved at all, but the two best youths - one in each club - have already going. One, a 14-year-old has gone up 3 in 12 days, so that's encouraging. I'm particularly interested to see whether the attributes increase proportionally or evenly.